Craig, Somehow, I find myself familiar with your comments, both analytical and historical (although I'm not sure why the S&W edition that features a forward by White's stepson Roger Angell wasn't more successful - this edition seems to have faded from the summit of the publishing pantheon). But I digress. As is the case with other posts about this issue, you concentrate on the shortcomings of S&W based on your elevated position as a professional grammarian. What I'm trying to do is to call our collective attention to the fact that the great unwashed - specifically our students, their parents (the folks who pay our modest salaries and pensions), and those who presumably were our students but feel they haven't learned much - light on this book like bees to honey. The reason why this is so, I claim, is that the GU (great unwashed) are desperate for somebody to tell them the proper way to speak and write standard English, and instead we deliver our contextualized, academic, conditional talk about grammar and syntax and tell the GU that there could be a "few" sections that might be useful. My observation is that the GU don't care. And that is one reason why, I think, we find ourselves marginalized. We focus on the ills we suffer at the hands of NCTE but don't notice that there is a huge audience out there who agrees with us that grammar should be taught, and yet we do nothing to appeal to these people. Instead, they turn to S&W, Grammar Girl, and other sites that offer even less insight than S&W
Geoff Layton
> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:45:52 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Strunk&White - Alive and Well
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Geoff,
> There really is very little grammar in Strunk and white. There's quite a bit of usage, but most of that is in the Strunk sections, not in what E. B. White added, and that has become largely irrelevant because of the passage of time.
> The good prescriptive advice is almost entirely about writing: things like preferring the concrete over the abstract and omitting needless words and working from a suitable design. I certainly learned a lot by considering that advice when I was much younger.
> Strunk was a teacher, but E.B. White was a very successful (and acclaimed) writer. When I was in grad school, the book was recommended to me by writers who found the advice a very useful alternative to the composition books that seemed to have been written by people who never wrote anything of their own outside of an English class.
> Students come to me with the book from time to time because it's required by a few teachers, and I'll sometimes point out to them the few sections I find very useful.
> It's not a grammar book. There's very little attention to syntax in the book.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 2:35 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Strunk&White - Alive and Well
>
> Pullum's review is pretty much my point - all of us literati can rail against S&W ("how to I hate thee? let me count the ways!") with good reason but with little effect. The great unwashed still love 'em - and if we're going to gain influence with that audience, which includes our students, then I think we need to come to terms with them and what they have that's so appealing. In terms of their influence, to paraphrase the words of that great observer of the public scene in "When Harry Met Sally" - "I'll have what Strunk and White are having!"
>
> Geoff Layton
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 14:21:05 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Strunk&White - Alive and Well
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>
> Here’s a link to Geoffrey Pullum’s review of Strunk&White and the culture around it.
>
>
>
> http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-of-Stupid-Grammar/25497
>
>
>
> Herb
>
>
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 10:15 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Strunk&White - Alive and Well
>
>
>
> As much as we all like to beat up on Strunk and White, they are alive and well and featured guests in a recent Career Builders essay on resume writing that got extra distribution as a link on today's msn.com main news page (see below).
>
>
> http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article/MSN-2721-Cover-Letters-Resumes-The-elements-of-résumé-style/?SiteId=cbmsnhp42721&sc_extcmp=JS_2721_home1?gt1=23000
>
> The point is this - instead of continuing to rail against them, should we not be using what makes them so popular? I'd suggest that at least part of the reason for their long lived success is the very prescriptivism that has been so thoroughly debunked in the academy. In other words, people (and perhaps our students are part of this ubiquitous "people" group) like to know that there is a right and wrong about grammar. And my guess is that a very large percent of students entering any composition class will list "improve my grammar" at or near the top of their list.
>
> So is there any way that we academic grammarians can become the new Strunk and White (NOTE TO CAREER BUILDERS - THEY'RE DEAD!).
>
> Geoff Layton
>
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