Dear MJC,
I am so sorry --I must have overlooked this message.  I see, 
though, from the comments here that my posting really was 
misunderstood.  I have a very good knowledge of language 
diversification and would certainly not confuse what I see 
as a breakdown in formal English with the natural 
development of dialects, etc.  I need to stress that these 
are very different processes.  I realize that most linguists 
and teachers are unacquainted with language acquisition 
problems and with the level of language that is "naturally" 
acquired.  The formal level of language associated with 
literacy is not learned unconsciously.  The dismal formal-
level English skills (i.e., more complex structures of the 
language, higher-level vocabulary) of native-speaker ESL 
teachers directly affects the progress of ESL students in 
the schools. 
yvonne






---- Original message ----
>Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 11:59:50 +0300
>From: MCJ <[log in to unmask]>  
>Subject: Re: Re ESL teachers' language skills: A 
misunderstanding?  
>To: [log in to unmask]
>
>Robert Yates wrote:
>
>>Yvonne,
>>
>>The formatting of your post with examples confused me.
>>
>>I would very much like to read your analysis of why you 
consider these
>>examples of a language deficit.
>>  
>>
>I expect the problem is with the term "language deficit". I 
understood 
>that Yvonne meant some deviation from the standardized 
usage and grammar 
>reflected in most of teaching material currently used. 
Teachers, and 
>especially English teachers, are the primary models 
students have for 
>correct English, and if teachers don't present reliable 
models for 
>students then the English that they teach must been seen as 
an abstract 
>academic language. Some students will master it but most 
will regard it 
>as useless and irrelevant.
>
>I live in the Arab world. The problem here is more visible, 
perhaps 
>because of the legendary "diglossia" of the Arabs. Most K-
12 Arabic 
>instructors, and also many at university level, are not 
skilled speakers 
>of the standard Arabic dialect that they teach, so written 
Arabic has in 
>most places become an exclusively literary language. This 
obviously gets 
>in the way of reading and is probably one of the major 
factors behind 
>the rise in functional illiteracy among otherwise well-
educated 
>people.The difficulties begin in primary school where 
pupils who are 
>only just learning to read and write are confronted with 
words and 
>structures that are, for them, completely foreign and 
incomprehensible. 
>Highly negative attitudes toward local dialects 
as "corrupt" prevent any 
>attempt at translation.
>
>These are the kinds of problems that English speaking 
people probably 
>want to avoid, and if the Arabs could not avoid them simply 
by teaching 
>"grammar" to children, you will not succeed in this way 
either. The 
>fossilized grammar of Arabic does not reflect the way 
people speak, or 
>indeed think. Academic Arabic is elitist and 
incomprehensible to most 
>people, who, being set adrift with no literary life of 
their own, must 
>themelves suffer from a certain "language deficit", being 
now unable to 
>express their thoughts or feelings effectively. They do not 
understand 
>one another and cannot communicate with others, and this 
effects every 
>sphere of public life, causing great problems in politics 
in particular.
>
>Yvonne's term, "language deficit" is probably an 
unfortunate choice, but 
>this failure to understand what she means is illustrative 
of what will 
>happen if people fail to get a grip on their language and 
how it is 
>taught and used.
>
>Omar
>
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Yvonne Stapp PhD
Assistant Professor of ESL
James Madison University
Dept of Exceptional Education MSC 6908
Memorial Hall 3130B
Harrisonburg, VA 22807
phone 540-568-4525

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