Sorry to the list for feeding the trolls. I (had thought) thought this was a
private message from Brad, and didn't realize he (had sent) sent it to everyone.
~~~~~
THIS is why I persist. People, even ATEG people, DO put 'had' in front of past
tense verbs.
It's an inch deep but a mile wide. It's everywhere. As long as learned ATEG
professionals persist, unwittingly, I shall persist as well.
"feeding the trolls", Karl? Et tu, Brute?
I should thank you, Brute, for proving my point so splendidly. Yes. Thank you. I
hope some of the others are paying attention.
.brad.06dec10.
________________________________
From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 12:47:40 PM
Subject: Re: common irregular verbs
Sorry to the list for feeding the trolls. I had thought this was a
private message from Brad, and didn't realize he had sent it to everyone.
On 12/6/2010 9:37 AM, Karl Hagen wrote:
> While it is true that there's a lot of mindless copying among grammar
> books, that's not the issue here. Neither is the complexity of
> Huddleston and the others. Huddleston and Pullum is a reference grammar.
> It is _not_ intended for children, so there's no reason for them to
> simplify.
>
> Anyway, complaining about the problems that grammar books for school
> children have is a red herring. You still need to show that there's
> something wrong with the technical understanding of the perfect in
> standard grammar references like Huddleston and Pullum. Then we can talk
> about how to present it to children.
>
> And no, there is nothing the matter with the paradigms you quoted. They
> are correct, no matter what you say. Find me a book that says otherwise.
> Until you can, your opinion has no weight. It's your bald assertion
> against the entire weight of all the grammatical authorities.
>
>
> On 12/5/2010 7:38 PM, Brad Johnston wrote:
>> You sent this back to me without comment. It reflects much of what's
>> wrong with <many> most grammar texts. Much of grammar text content is
>> mindless, careless repetition of things that don't make sense, as this
>> one demonstrates. There's a lot of plagiarism in the grammar trade. One
>> grammar text author told me what he wrote had to be right because he
>> copied it from another text. I believe him because he lifted things from
>> me, word for word -- things he clearly doesn't understand but used
>> anyway.
>> /Some Common Irregular Verbs, page 37./
>> //
>> /Past begin choose drink eat grow hide/
>> /Present began chose drank ate grew hid/
>> /Past Participle begun chosen drunk eaten grown hidden/
>> **
>> /There's a little something the matter with them, don't you think? Look
>> carefully or you'll miss it./
>> //
>> There's a LOT the matter with them and y ou did miss it.
>> Is it any wonder kids hate grammar when so much of it either doesn't
>> make sense, like what you see above, or is presented in a way that is
>> unnecessarily convoluted and complicated, e.g, Huddleston, Wardhaugh,
>> et al?
>> .brad.05dec10.
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