Bill,
Thanks for the clarification. What happened in the 60s is widely
misunderstood, both by those who oppose it and by those who agree with
it.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of William McCleary
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 7:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The lessons of recent pedagogical history was Rules
Herb,
I just want to clarify for you what was actually said about the effect
of grammar on the teaching of writing. Here is the much misinterpreted
statement from
Research in Writing Composition by Braddock, Lloyd-Jones and Schoer
(NCTE, 1963):
In view of the widespread agreement of research studies based upon many
types of students and teachers, the conclusion can be stated in strong
and unqualified terms: the teaching of formal grammar has a negligible
or, because it usually displaces some instruction and practice in
actual composition, even a harmful effect on the improvement of
writing.
Some people seem to read right over the clause after "or." And I can
testify from personal experience that the teacher of grammar did
displace the teaching of composition. (I started teaching English in
1961) Indeed, at the time we considered the teaching of grammar to be a
significant part of teaching composition. We thought that students
couldn't understand and correct their errors unless they first learned
enough about grammar for us to explain the errors to them.
Unfortunately, a lot of teachers spent so much time on grammar that
they never got around to teaching composition. It is, after all, a lot
easier to correct a grammar quiz than a composition.
I am sorry that so many people interpreted this conclusion by Braddock
et al. to mean that grammar shouldn't be taught at all, but if one has
to make a choice between grammar and composition, I'd rather see
composition be the choice. I'd rather see both included, but that just
leads to making of choice of which approach to grammar would be most
teachable and most useful. I'm afraid that what we taught in the early
sixties was neither teachable or useful for the majority of students.
I'm happy to see that you are currently addressing that issue.
Bill
On Oct 13, 2007, at 4:15 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
> Ron,
>
> What you describe in the ESL context in Quebec and Bangalore is the
> heart of what motivated the founders of ATEG, the theoretical claims
> in the fifties and sixties that the teaching of grammar not only did
> not help student writers improve their writing but actually detracted
> from it. Composition writers argued that the teaching of grammar was
> harmful to the teaching of writing. NCTE adopted this finding and the
> training of teachers in grammar, the place of grammar in K12 language
> arts curricula, and, of course, the place of grammar in the writing
> class all diminished sharply.
>
> Herb
>
>
> Bruce raises an interesting issue which all teachers have to confront
> from
> time to time. That is the implementation of an innovation which they
> are
> not necessarily equipped to handle and which they find implicitly
> entails
> their rejecting their own teaching prinicples. This happened in ESL
in
> Quebec and Bangalore, India in the 80s where teachers were forbidden
to
> teach grammar when an extreme form of communicative language teaching
> was
> introduced which, by the way, ultimately failed.
>
> I wonder whether any members have had experience of this in teaching
> English
> as a first language.
>
> Interestingly, in the cases mentioned in the first pargraph, as
> teachers
> increasingly lost faith in the innovation, they returned
> surreptitiously to
> their own teaching principles.
>
> Ron Sheen
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
Bill McCleary
Livonia, NY
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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