Dick, you are so right! I wonder if it has to do with the syntactic role of
the noun phrase (S or O)...but I agree with your judgments. Thanks for the
insight

Linda


Linda Di Desidero, PhD

Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center

Marine Corps University

Gray Research Center, Room 122

Quantico, Virginia 22134

703-784-4401


On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Linda,
>
> I agree that the two starred sentences are bad, but perhaps they are more
> awkward than ungrammatical. "This is" as the opening may be to blame. I
> find the following to be fine:
>
>      The mansion of the most hated man in America, built in 1849, is now
> celebrated as a world-class art museum.
>
> Here's one with not one but two nouns separating the participial phrase
> from the noun it modifies:
>
>     The famous statue of Shakespeare in Central Park, commissioned in
> 1864, was not erected until 1872.
>
> I have no trouble with that one either.
>
> Dick
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Linda Di Desidero <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Just to jump in to the conversation here: I disagree with the
>> grammaticality judgment that allows the participial phrase to attach to the
>> first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather than the noun that is closest
>> to the participial phrase (man). I see nothing wrong with having the phrase
>> attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to attach that way for me.
>> Examples:
>>
>> This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born in 1849.
>> *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, built in 1849.
>>
>> This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, who was born in
>> 1849.
>> *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was built
>> in 1849.
>>
>> Happy new year :)
>>
>> Linda
>>
>>
>> Linda Di Desidero, PhD
>>
>> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
>>
>> Marine Corps University
>>
>> Gray Research Center, Room 122
>>
>> Quantico, Virginia 22134
>>
>> 703-784-4401
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry Clay and jumped to
>>> conclusions.
>>>
>>> Frick may have been America's most hated man, but I always had kind
>>> thoughts when visiting his mansion and art collection in NYC.
>>>
>>> Dick
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dick & John,
>>>>
>>>> Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist, was indeed born in 1849 (December
>>>> 19).
>>>> Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence
>>>> fragment, apparently the title of an illustration or picture?
>>>> The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe not.
>>>> The adjective phrase (participle) modifying *man*, which is a part
>>>> of the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), is not really a very
>>>> smooth style.  I think I would want to rewrite it:
>>>>
>>>> *The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America' (who was born
>>>> on this day in 1849).*
>>>>
>>>> --- [log in to unmask] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: modifier placement
>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500
>>>>
>>>>   There are two possible interpretations:
>>>>
>>>> 1)   ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifiers of
>>>> "mansion"
>>>> 2)   ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase modifies
>>>> "mansion" and the second modifies [man]
>>>>
>>>> Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the
>>>> result is ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than
>>>> ambiguous. Because "born" is generally used with people and not buildings,
>>>> most readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was
>>>> born in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has
>>>> done a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born," the
>>>> problem would have been less likely to have arisen.
>>>>
>>>> Best holiday wishes.
>>>> Dick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy <
>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Happy Holidays to all...
>>>>
>>>> I can infer that the intent of the phrase below suggests that "the most
>>>> hated man in America" (referring to Henry Clay Frick) was born "on
>>>> this day" etc. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a
>>>> misplaced modifier suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank
>>>> you and best wishes...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America,' born on this
>>>> day in 1849.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>  John Chorazy
>>>> English I and III, Academic and Honors
>>>> Advisor, *Panther Press* and Co-advisor, *Folio*
>>>> Pequannock Township High School
>>>> 973.616.6000
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Noli Timere
>>>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
>>>> "Join or leave the list"
>>>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
>>>> "Join or leave the list"
>>>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
>>>> "Join or leave the list"
>>>>
>>>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>>>
>>>
>>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
>>> "Join or leave the list"
>>>
>>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>>
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
>> "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/