Johnanna,
Sorry for the problems in my post.
I was wrong to infer that non-finite would imply infinitive. I apologize for the oversight and for the bluntness of my response.
I was also wrong to use the oxymoronic term "immediate tense." In this case I was trying to say that the time reference of an imperative is normally the time immediately following the time of the utterance. You astutely pointed out the fact that time adverbials can alter this reference to the more distant future.
The use of the past form "would" in a request, "Would you turn out the light?" is meant to soften the request rather than place it in the past. I was thinking of the fact that this is an interrogative structure which is interpreted as a polite imperative. In my mind it is asking about the present willingness of the addressee.
Of some interest to teachers may be the fact that some languages have a first person imperative that translates into English as "let's." This "auxiliary" has some irregular properties. There are also third person imperatives, that are a bit more difficult to translate in any uniform way, "let them be," "may they be," etc.
Bruce
>>> [log in to unmask] 3/8/2005 4:55:14 PM >>>
Bruce, my original response was to this post of yours:
"When I said the imperative was a finite form, I had in mind that there
was agreement in the form with 1) the person of the subject ("you"
second, understood), and 2) the tense (always immediate, understood).
The infinitive doesn't have either person or tense understood. The
actual outward form is identical, hence the confusion between form and
function with the term. I guess Johanna's metaphor would say we can
ride the horse or have it pull our wagon, it's still a horse. In one
case we ride bareback and it is relatively unbridled, in the other, it
has to be harnessed up and is more connected.
Bruce"
I guess I have to ask you to define "finite". Also, what is "immediate
tense"?
My definition of "finite" is "carries a tense marker, whether an overt
mark or zero". "Nonfinite" means "not marked for tense", not
"infinitive". Hence participles are nonfinite, but not infinitives.
When does "would" refer to present time?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanna Rubba Associate Professor, Linguistics
English Department, California Polytechnic State University
One Grand Avenue * San Luis Obispo, CA 93407
Tel. (805)-756-2184 * Fax: (805)-756-6374 * Dept. Phone. 756-2596
* E-mail: [log in to unmask] * Home page:
http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
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