I very much enjoyed the discussion about whether 'that' can be a pronoun
in relative clauses. I don't believe I ever really thought about it
before. I have just assumed that it is a pronoun, because that is what
I was taught, but also because, to me, it seems to function as one. But
that is not what I'm writing about. In one of the posts, which I can't
find now, somebody mentioned constructions such as 'just try and stop
me.' When my students use this structure, I usually change it to
'...try to stop me.' From the brief mention, though, it sounds like
there might be a different explanation in which it is not an error.
Does anyone care to elucidate?
Thanks in advance!
Janet Castilleja
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 10:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Developmental phases of grammar knowledge
If I remember correctly, children start being able to process passives
at around the same time they start demonstrating the ability to
recognize that someone is deliberately not telling the truth, which is
kind of interesting.
With some of the more complex constructions, particularly low-frequency
ones like absolutes, I think it's worth asking whether we're seeing an
actual developmental effect, or (instead) simply the result of lack of
exposure. It's one thing to say we don't see students producing these,
it's another to say they can't. They certainly don't hear absolute
phrases much in everyday speech, and there are lots of options one can
use instead of an absolute (I'm not counting the Being that... that
native Michiganders seem to use a lot; I suspect it's just a
periphrastic conjunction).
Bill Spruiell
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Myers, Marshall
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:49 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Developmental phases of grammar knowledge
Scott,
I believe passive voice is one of those constructions, too.
Children at 5 or below see the grammatical subject as the actor---which
makes some sense considering the nature of most English syntax.
Marshall
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Woods
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 11:53 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Developmental phases of grammar knowledge
Dear List,
I have read that some constructions do not appear in student writing
until they are at the right age. I do not recall where I read this, but
it seems to go against my experience, specifically, as I recall, the
claim that absolute phrases do not show up until students are around 16.
Has anyone else read anything like this? Does anyone have any
references for this? Is this a widespread idea?
Scott Woods
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